Episode 105 - Jon Castelli

Show Notes

Live with Matt Rad - Episode 105
Dec 12, 2022
w/ Jon Castelli - Week 83
Show notes by: Bradley Will

Q: Why do releases like the new SZA record have multiple mix engineers across the entire record?

Jon:
Quite often it’s because the various producers on the record have mix engineers that they insist on using.

I think sometimes the artist takes the hit for this diversity because there is less cohesion across the entire record.

A lot of artists do rely on a single mixer. I’m working with an artist now he believes in cohesion across the record.

It would be a dream of mine to do most of the mixing for an entire record and then co-mix on a single song with one of the greats like Serban.

Sometimes label heads want to “cast” a mixer based on the style of the song.


Matt:
A+Rs will often make choices of mixers based on the characteristics of a song. Uptempo vs. downtempo, etc.

A lot of the reason these mixers get hired again and again is because of a long-term relationship that’s built on trust. The people hiring want someone who they know can deliver consistently.

Jon on Mixing the New SZA Record

Jon mixed four songs on SOS by SZA: Low, Used, Smoking on My Ex Pack, and Conceited.
He also did all of the Atmos mixes along with Mike Miller over the course of 4 days.


Jon:
I mixed all of the stereo mixes within 48 hours.

When mixing the vocals in Low. I left Rob’s (producer) vocal chain the way that it came in because of time constraints. This is uncommon for me.

• SZA wanted her verb to match Don Toliver’s

• SZA wants to be warm.
  

On the verb I’ve been using the Ozone 10 Stabilizer at 100% on the verb only. That would control the harmonic overtones that poke out. Then I saturated and limited after that to control them again.

• This allows me to keep the reverb from overwhelming everything else.
  

(The Low vocal reverb) It’s a 2s reverb in Valhalla Vintage Verb in the Now setting. It has a Tupe afterwards to saturate it.

SZA wanted the beat on ‘Used’ to sound like her first demo.


Matt:
It’s important to note that when the artist has demo-itis that a professional mixer like Jon is not going to try to talk the artist into making it sound “better” than the demo. He works within the constraints that the artist has set for their vision.

It’s so important to facilitate the feeling that the artist is seeking. That should supersede everything else.


Jon:
My favorite part about all of this is the communication with Rob (producer). He’s so polite.

• He would clearly convey that the artist wasn’t going to like the mix he’s done. He would politely ask if Jon was willing to do another pass at the mix.
  

I got the call to mix ‘Low’ on a Saturday night after 6 hrs of cooking and being ready for a chill night at home.

• Rob needed the first record back within 1 hr.

• Once I sent it off I was anxious waiting for a response.

• All of SZA’s mix notes for ‘Low’ were because of the vocal. There were no beat notes.

• She continually wanted more reverb to match the Don Toliver beat.
  

On the Low vocal reverb I was trying to achieve something that felt new. People love it, but I still feel slightly insecure because I don’t feel like I quite nailed it.

I think the best mixers are the best because they are “client whisperers’. They listen deeply to the record, get it to where the clients wants it and make it as friction-less as possible.


Matt:
The people I know in music who are successful usually have some sort of unreasonable conviction or ego. The kind of belief that cause other’s to fall off sooner.

• As we mature, though, you have to learn to dial back the roughness of asserting your own opinion over everyone else’s.
  

Jon:
A recent idea that I had to push back on in a round-table discussion was the virtue of being a “sonic disruptor”.

• I don’t think that is the future of mixing.

• I think it will instead be the mixers who are working with the producers on the songs.

• I don’t want that to be my path. I want to be someone who works well with the artists and who is someone the artist’s want to work with.
  

Matt:
The role of mixing engineer today is not what it was. These days things can get very close to finished by a producer. The question is then whether or not the mixer can make some small adjustments to give that last 5% to make the record feel finished.

The days of mixers delivering dramatically different mixes is not really what people are asking for these days.

If you want to make a sonic impact these days you can do more as a recording engineer.

A mixer is a very different role these days.


Jon:
On ‘Low’ I feel like I really did my job. I remade the essence of the demo that she liked, but I made it hit so much harder.

Oftentimes I’ll set the gain structure of the mix by setting the limiter to where it needs to be for the 808 and then I mix around that.

The same week I mixed a song by Cirkut. His mix sounded ready to be released. I did my part to improve upon it, but if Cirkut’s mix was released it would probably have just as much success as is.


Matt:
Artist’s aren’t waiting on you to make the record sound great. They’re shaping it before it even reaches you. So don’t make the mistake of thinking that what you’re receiving hasn’t already been approved by the artist.


Jon:
I still consider myself to be a de-mixer. I peel back some of the layers on the mixes I receive to keep it from feeling clamped down or give it more impact.

I delivered ‘Low’ at -11 LUFS. Dale Becker (mastering engineer) brought it up to -10. But it’s still a relatively quiet mix.

Q: How do you decide hall vs. chamber vs. other types of reverb when mixing a song?

Jon:
I don’t know and I’ve never thought about this ever.

Matt:
I cycle through them and I do what sounds better.

• I generally don’t like how plate blends into contemporary mixes.

• Generally I’m using halls and chambers.

• I really like Seventh Heaven and R-Verb.

• The Valhalla Vintage Verb is great once you get off the default preset.
  

Jon:
My insecurity on reverb is a through-line for all of the SZA mixes.

My go to is the Sunset Chamber preset on the Seventh Heaven plugin

• I also like how aggressive the Megaverb from Goodhertz

• I’ve been getting back into using the FabFilter Pro-R.

• I like the ARP 2600 spring verb in Altiverb on drums.

• I also like the ambience and non-lin algorithms in the AMS RMX16 reverb.
  

Mono spring into a stereo plate is great.

If it were up to me, pop music would have very little reverb because I like to hear the artist up-front and and honest.

Q: Is hissing noise in Coles mics inherently a part of the sound?

Matt:
Ribbon mics are inherently low-noise. You need to crank the gain and that often brings up the noise.

• A cloudlifter will give you a clean gain boost if the preamp is also noisy.

• It’s very much worth it.
  

If you’re doing a soft vocal or guitar into a ribbon mic it’s going to be noisy.

Higher impedance on ribbon mics.

• If you’re plugging a Coles into a low-grade preamp it might diminish the high-end.
  

Jon:
Izotope has nailed the RX10 de-noiser plugin. It works really well.

• I don’t notice any high-end degradation like I used to.

• You have to be subtle with it, but it works very well these days without removing the airy high-end.

Q: Any value in console mixing in 2022?

Matt:
I think whatever works for you is fine.

It maybe adds a little bit of character and harmonic distortion.

Everyone has the same ability these days to make a great record with whatever tools that they use.

There’s very little technical reason to use a board these days. It will probably be phased out in a generation.

Jon:
You don’t have to invest in it these days unless you really feel like it give you an advantage.