Episode 21 - Finishing
Show Notes
Finishing
Live With Matt Rad - Episode 21
Sept 29, 2020
w/ Jon Castelli - Week 19
Show notes by: Bradley Will
Being a Finisher:
The record is known to be complete before the mastering engineer touches it. The finality of it is sealed before they do their job. For this reason Jon does not consider being a finisher to include mastering.
Q: What are the essential differences between a great song that has some great production and a finished record?
Jon:
He prefers the title of “finisher” or “record maker” to “mixer”. That’s how he refers to himself.
He doesn’t think of himself as a mixer because he’s not changing levels all of the time.
Mixers no longer have sole creative control over balances and sound-design.
Finishing is a trust-factor. “You’ve done this enough times that you can deem a track finished or not.”
Jon received a rough mix the other day that sounded good enough to release.
The client then asked Jon to add the magic things that he does.
Jon tries to make it “sound like a record”. He wants you to perceive the song as a whole and not as a bunch of great-sounding parts.
Jon considers a mix as 4-dimensional. He thinks of it temporally.
He uses the term topography to describe it.
It’s the art of mapping the song’s terrain.
He listens from the top of the song all the time.
If the mix loses his attention at any point, how can he recapture it for the rest of the song and not let the listener go?
This is the only thing that he needs to think about as we works.
His one job is to think about the full arc of the song.
Mixing is only part of this.
As a mix engineer, he’s not changing the volume very often.
Jon has been trying to master the art of transitions between blocks of music.
If the arrangement is sparse, Jon will finish the song by making each element change a little bit over the course of the song.
Matt:
All of those things that Jon just mentioned (the arc of the song). That is the last 30% of finishing.
Maybe you need to add a new post-chorus.
Maybe you need to add some more background vocals in a chorus.
How do you know that you’re done?
There isn’t one answer.
It all comes down to experience.
We’re considering the arc of the song as we finish.
A lot of records that don’t sound finished these days suffer from things sounding “blocky” and without smooth transitions between sections.
One of the ways to make things feel like there’s an arc is to play a (instrumental) performance through the whole song, from top to bottom.
Another technique is to switch up drum samples as the song progresses.
Automate changes in sounds from section to section so that there is a sense of evolution in the music and it doesn’t feel “loopy”.
“Write drunk. Edit sober”
You need to be free to make big, broad, swings before you allow yourself to edit it.
Matt takes serious breaks, sometimes days between doing the creative part and then doing the editing.
The creative process is very much not about judgement. It’s less about perspective and much more about throwing things out there and getting out of your own way when creating.
The finishing process is much more about perspective and getting feedback. Then you figure out how to make your good idea translate to an audience without losing the emotion that was compelling in the first place.
Knowing if something is done is like falsifiability in the scientific method.
———
Jon:
Trust in collaboration. You’ve got to have people around who you trust. People who listen to music and can give you feedback.
You need people who can give you that perspective to help you know if it’s finished or not.
The most success Jon has at finishing (not monetarily) is in working someone he’s worked with before or someone connected him with.
Jon wants people to feel comfortable passing off the record to him and know that it’s going to come back feeling better.
Producers should be free to make another record while he finishes it. To pass it on and trust that it’s in good hands.
Understand what you’re best at:
Are you a vibe starter? Don’t spend twenty hours finishing something that took you 5 min to get in the first place.
Are you a finisher?
Matt:
Adele spent a lot of time working on 21 in LA for several months to finish the record. Then she went home to England and got (lukewarm) feedback from her friends, so she decided to go back to the demos to try again. It paid off.
When playing for friends or family, play them three songs, so that they don’t have to say “I like this, or I don’t like this one”. He just asks “which is your favorite?”
Just play your song in the room for others. That will immediately change your perspective and you will hear new things.
That is a great way to get perspective.
A-level people can more consistently get these decisions right.
Jon:
If you can match with someone who is a good starter/finisher. Then you are a great team.
Find yourself a starter/finisher partner.
Jon doesn’t want to start an idea ever. He wants to be a finisher. He has doubled-down on being a finisher. He loves that feeling of trust that comes from people handing off their babies to him.
You want the people coming up behind you to learn these lessons before you did at that point in your life.
Matt:
Matt has done a bit of everything, which has brought him success. If he specialized in just being a writer or just being a mixer, or a producer then he probably would have more success.
Specializing and finding a team is probably the best path to success.
Matt enjoys doing a different job every three days. It suits his personality.
It’s important to realize that you may not fit into one defined box. That’s okay. You just need to know that you’re going to need to work harder and maybe find yourself a finisher for your team.
Wherever you’re at it’s important to find collaborators.
Find people who complete your creative journey.
Jon:
Find your people that trust you.
The song is finished when everyone on the team says “Yay. Let’s put it out.”
Someone like Jon is leading the race to get this song done, but it’s not really done until everyone on the team says it’s done.
You want them to say “Yes!” and scream about it and be excited for it.
Jon doesn’t consider someone a mixer until they’ve been hired to mix an entire record that they only mixed on.
Jon never listens to a song from start to finish if an element is getting in the way. He goes back and corrects it before he allows himself to listen through the entire song.
Matt:
You don’t always know when to trust yourself.
It’s a feeling.
Getting through the first proper chorus. Once you can do that then the song has an identity. Once the arc of the song is formed. Then it’s time for finishing mode.
You have to play a song for people and know that they get it.
There are very few songs that Matt will not play for people before he sends it out.
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Q: Would you advise setting strict deadlines for songs and mixes?
Yes. But allow yourself to break them if you need to.
A deadline usually presents itself externally.
Matt never sticks exactly to the schedule that he sets for himself.
Q: What do you do if you lose perspective?
Jon:
Jon is working on training himself to not lose perspective.
Smoking and drinking will take Jon out of the perspective pretty quickly and therefore he never does it.
He meditates at least once a day. This helps him to re-adjust.
His job is to maintain perspective.
That’s why he tries to sleep well and be healthy.
Matt:
Finishing is very hard to do on substances.
100% of the time he would be better if he were better rested and sober.
Q: Glue. The idea of glue?
Jon thinks about glue in an arrangement.
Matt doesn’t put much on his mix buss to get glue.
Jon puts one plugin on his master buss. Be careful about phase issues from multi band crossovers.
