Episode 63

Show Notes

Live with Matt Rad - Episode 63
August 11, 2021
w/ Jon Castelli - Week 56

Show notes by: Bradley Will

Q: Is there a Jon Castelli cookbook coming?

Jon:
The short answer is probably not, do to the amount of work it would entail. Perhaps in five years.

I’ve got ideas, but they’re unconventional.

• I’d want to talk about it is from an improvisational standpoint.

• I’m less interested in specific recipes than giving readers the mindset to explore and feel out the needs of the dish in the moment.
  

Matt:
Train your ears and be a great record maker. Train your palette and be a great chef.

Q: How do you have the EQ set in your Tesla?

Jon:
My bass is at -2dB and my highs @ -3dB. Every once in a while I’ll bump the bass up 1dB.

I can’t listen to Sicko Mode with the setting flat in my Tesla. It sounds obnoxious. The vocal is too bright and the bass is too bass-y.

I’m all about warmer EQ and turning up the volume. That’s how my favorite records sound. The more you can turn it up the better it feels.


Matt:
We both like records that can be cranked and are not so harsh when they get louder and louder and louder. Records you can immerse yourself in without them biting your ears.

When I don’t like the sound of records it’s because I can’t crank them without hurting my ears.


Jon:
We should not be making records that fatigue people. We want people to get through the albums for a number of reasons.
1. People won’t get through the album if it’s too harsh.
2. We want them to like and enjoy a body of work from an artist.
3. From a streaming perspective, If people get through albums the artist and personnel with points on the record make more money.

Q: Can we hear about the new Leon Bridges record?

Jon:
To my knowledge, the record was done and mixed. Ricky Reed was going to mix it himself, but one A+R heard ‘Why Don’t You Touch Me’ and though it should be a “Castelli mix”. So he fought for me to get a shot at the song. It went well and then Ricky kept sending me more songs to mix.

John Mayer tweeted specifically about the mixes and he said something I completely disagree with and then completely agree with.

• He said: (paraphrasing) “I love how the top-end is lopped off, leaving you with the feel of a worn-in sweater that warms you up.”
  

Not every sound needs to have all of the top frequencies represented. If we’re boosting air on every sound it’s just taking up space and then you have to boost the top end even higher on the sounds that need that top-end to stand out.

Q: If you don’t have your outboard gear how would you get that excitement/vibe instead?

Jon:
I would do without it. I don’t need it to get the vibe. It just gets me there faster. Just use your ears.

Matt:
Someone once asked me what makes Eric Valentine’s mixes so good. A lot of what he is great at is saturation and distorting things through tube, tape, and transformers. That’s the key to unlocking a lot of what people are looking for.

Q: How do you handle it when someone is very insistent about writing together and you don’t want to. Especially if you value the friendship?

Matt:
Saying “no” respectfully and firmly is a very important skill that everyone should learn. Especially if there are a lot of proposals coming at you.

It’s hard to have those conversations with people when one of you has a rocket ship moment in their career that puts them in a lot of new rooms. There aren’t a lot of good answers. You just have to learn to say “no” and have a good conversation.

If your friends are really insistent and you don’t want to work you need to have an in-person conversation and say “I don’t really know how to have this conversation. I feel weird, but this is how I’m thinking.”

Don’t ghost people or give excuses. If someone is really your friend you need to sit down and have a conversation.

You can’t always do a solid for your friends.

Jon:
I like having a friend in music who understands what I do and my life and we never work together. We can talk about anything, but we don’t have to work.

Sometimes the right moment comes along where the idea of collaboration is right.

It’s okay to not want to collaborate with your friends.

Q: What part of record making should new artists outsource or collaborate on vs. DIY?

Matt:
If you are starting out as a record maker, you should try everything.

• Write, produce, mix, be an artist, record your vocals, shoot the video, and be collaborating with people too.

• Once you start doing that you will be better informed in your collaborations and then you can work with the right people who know how to take certain elements (production, etc) to the next level.

• Do everything so that you can quickly find out the things you’re not good at.
  

Jon:
The quicker you can do everything and understand everything and realize what you’re not good at, then you should choose to delegate responsibilities and find collaborators who can do that.

It’s better to have 10% on a record that does well than to have 100% on a record that doesn’t do well and you thought you had to do all by yourself.

I don’t think you need to understand mastering, though.

Q: When is perfectionism good and when is it bad?

Matt:
I don’t like the term perfectionism. I think it’s a word that people use who don’t know how to let things go.

• People are usually referring to “perfection paralysis” when people are afraid to put something out in the world.

• There is no such thing as perfection. It’s an ideal to work towards.
  

Eric Valentine has said on numerous occasions: “I’m trying to make the best record ever every time.”

I know very, very talented people who don’t finish things because they’re scared that it’s not perfect. We’re all afraid. You need to get over that and put things out into the world and play them for people and get it done.


Jon:
There’s something to be said about the objective person in the room: The Producer, the A+R, or the manager. The person who’s able to take as step back and objectively say something isn’t it.

Perfectionism is just waiting for something to click. At some point someone in the room has to say “This version is special.”

People work on songs for years. They come in and out of working on it.


Matt:
The biggest record I worked on took a year to get right.

If you’ve been in the position a number of times where you say “Okay it sounds finished.” Those people don’t tend to call themselves perfectionists.


@Miggy In the chat:
“It’s interesting how sometimes our perception of other people’s work can seem perfect.”


Jon:
As a finisher, I think there are a lot unfinished-sounding records coming out right now. They sound so dense that the focal point of the records are not compelling enough. There’s too much in the way of it.

• I would rarely say that there’s not enough stuff in a record.

• Billie and Finneas know how to finish a song. Despite calling themselves perfectionists.

Q: How is Matt’s time in London? Did it help improve your work? How are the studios out there?

Matt:
I’m having a great time out here doing a ton a sessions.

I like being in an environment that I don’t know very well. The process of getting adjusted to a room. I’m only writing. Not mixing. So I’m more focused on just the writing and not the sonics of the record.

There are lots of great studios in London. London is arguably the 2nd greatest music city in the world behind Los Angeles.

Q: Tips for mixes translating to Spotify and not sounding quieter than other big songs?

Matt:
Please refer to our past talks on loudness.

There isn’t an easy answer. What a lot of us have concluded is that you have to strike a balance between the best sounding thing around -10 to -12 and the hyper-loud Skrillex records. You have to find the balance that sounds best for your record. The closer you get to the louder mixes the more squashed your mix is going to sound.


Jon:
I’ll check mixes on Tidal and then on Spotify and they sound completely different.

Matt:
Jon has gotten the density of his mixes right. From there it’s a much more nuanced conversation to be having.

You can get your mixes louder if you just get your balances, and EQ, and density right.

• Don’t have competing frequencies or competing high-end that will force you to make your vocals so bright.
  

Loudness and density is a much better place to explore instead of worrying about loudness on the streaming services.

Q: Do you guys keep notebooks of production tips that you’ve picked up over the years?

Matt:
No.

Certainly there are presets I’ll save if I get a great sound, but by and large there is no documentation for anything I do. We’re just doing it and applying it as we go.

When I did the Dredg record there was a guy who did meticulous notes about all of the mic and EQ settings. I never took a look at that once.

Q: Who is a mixer that you study?

Jon:
I don’t really study mixers. I study songs. I’m not really stoked on mixes right now.


Matt:
My favorite mixes these days tend to be the self-contained EDM people, like Skrillex who are combining sound design with their mixing. It’s a new combination of things.

Q: Do you ever feel jaded after working on so much music?

Jon:
No. Sometimes I don’t love a project I’m working on for hours at a time, but I love music. I have a lot of gratitude for the fact that I get to do this every day.


Matt:
I’ve had moments, like when tracking guitars for 10-12 hours a day, where I found myself unable to listen to music because I was so fatigued by the sound of distorted guitars. I was exhausted. It happens sometimes.

• The solution to that is to take breaks. Either for 5 min or to take a couple of days off to smell the flowers.

Q: How does one expand their music discography and study music?

Matt:
A lot of streaming services aren’t great discovery tools. They tend to show you more of what it knows you like.

• You need to stay curious and make an effort to seek it out.