Episode 71 - Jon Castelli
Show Notes
Live with Matt Rad - Episode 71
Nov 2, 2021
w/ Jon Castelli - Week 61
Show notes by: Bradley Will
Q: How do album mix notes work?
Jon:
I’ve recently finished mixing two albums worth of material and am now awaiting album notes.
It’s rare to get every song to mix for an album all at once. They usually come in as a drip, so I don’t always have the opportunity to mix an entire album at once.
It’s nice to stay in album mode because I get into the flow about how to best work on an artist.
I get asked often to redo other people’s mixes in order to bring the feel of a song closer to another song or feel that’s already established for the record.
Matt:
Traditionally albums were all done at the same studio, whereas nowadays the assets are coming in from everywhere. Different producers and different studios. As a result, it takes a lot more work for a record to feel cohesive.
Q: How do you quickly familiarize yourself with a new genre or style for a project?
Matt:
I get bored if I have to do the same style again and again, so I like to change it up. I’m always in the process of trying to familiarize myself with new genres
If I’m going into a project I’ll get references and ask the artist what they’re listening to. Not what they sound like, but the records that they’re listening to.
I want to be great at a genre that I don’t know how to do. I’ve got to make at least five beats or records to understand the mechanics of what is going on in that genre, so that I can feel comfortable moving around in it when the time comes to write or do a session.
To do future bass stuff, I had to make a lot of bad versions of the genre before I could get good enough to understand what was needed. Sometimes I had to bring someone in too.
Jon:
I love all different genres. Jazz, classical, string arrangements, hip hop, etc. It’s my favorite thing to jump around.
I don’t really study or listen to modern music.
I ask my homies who are involved in the scene what is going on in the scene now. I want to understand, but this comes out through my conversations. Not through actively listening to every new thing.
I don’t reference records that are coming out today. I ask my friends what is happening in the charts today.
Matt:
It’s important for producers to go deep on a style. If you’re starting a new record and you don’t know how to do it, you need to make at least ten or more tracks in order to get yourself acclimated to the style.
Jon:
I don’t ever want to be the flavor of the moment, if I can help it. I want to be versatile.
Tony (Maserati) would put a lot of thought into the cultural context of the record and decide how it should relate now at this moment in history.
Q: How much do you disregard what is happening at the moment and just innovate and how much are you trying to make sure your work matches what’s on the charts now?
Matt:
To quote Kanye West: “Trend is always late.”
Most of us don’t make music to fit in. We make music because we’re interested in the new, different, special, or groundbreaking thing.
My job is very often how to make the song fit into today’s top-hits playlists without compromising what makes the song great at all.
Quite often you’ll be getting pressure by the non-artists to push something towards the center so that it can reach as large of an audience as possible.
It’s sometimes hard to jump into new genres unless you’re very steeped in it.
Jon:
Every pop record sounds about the same for the last twenty years in regard to its frequency balance or sonic signature.
EDM did a different thing for a bit, but that was a phase/trend that people chased.
Much of what’s coming out now was made 1-4 years ago. People weren’t thinking about the sonic balance then.
Q: What’s more important when starting out getting work? Having a mixing discography or getting a degree from a school?
Matt:
You’re going to get work by doing great work for people.
This is how I got in with Eric Valentine. He came across a record I had done that someone showed to him.
The degree does not matter. In terms of your resume what people say about you is worth far more.
If you’re over-trained it may not be a good fit because it will be too hard for you to adjust your flow.
Jon:
My first requirement to having an assistant is being non-judgemental as they sit and listen to me work. Someone will sit on the sofa and who I can be very comfortable around.
The first thing I did with my now assistant Josh was to take him to the restaurant Little Sister and see if he can hang eating Southeast Asian food.
Unless your social skills need a ton of work, I wouldn’t recommend going to school for a degree. You’d be taking on a lot of debt otherwise.
Matt:
Nowadays you’ve got lots of free resources to draw on like Youtube and this podcast.
The thing that will determine your success is how much you structure your time to do this work in your free time.
Q: Any tips on maintaining community in multiple cities?
Matt:
It’s hard. If you don’t immerse yourself in a local scene it’s much, much harder to maintain relationships.
LA is less of a “community” compared to other cities, despite there being a lot of people creating.
Q: Why do my headphone mixes sound poor on other sources?
Jon:
Because there is no sense of space in the headphones.
You don’t get the translation of hearing the reflections in a room.
You’re always mixing for a certain set a headphones. That doesn’t translate to other models.
I can always tell when people mix on headphones
The midrange is sucked out. It sounds more claustrophobic and throaty.
Matt:
If you’re listening to something that’s complete dead you’re going to miss out on how it translates in the real world.
I’ve used open-back headphones. Those are better. But they still don’t quite translate.
Reflections are an important part of hearing and you don’t get those in headphones.
Doing things exclusively in headphones limits how your work is going to translate.
Jon:
I think your relevance and your success is based on how much you’re being asked to participate in making records. If you’re mixing in headphones and still getting invited to sessions, then keep doing what works for you.
Q: What do you do when you think you’ve overcooked a mix?
Jon:
Start over.
I always incrementally save-as a session with different titles so that I can go back and revisit each iteration.
Matt:
On the production side, I’ll often completely start over.
This usually happens 10% of the time.
“Write drunk, edit sober.”
When you’re in the creative mode you shouldn’t be limiting yourself by also thinking about the finishing process.
Jon:
I think the main cause of demo-itis is night-of bounces of the song that the artist will get attached to prematurely.
Artists should get in the habit of living with the song for a little bit without a rough bounce and then come back the next day to listen objectively.
In this sense we could all learn something from Frank Ocean, who doesn’t bounce a song until it’s done.
