Episode 92 - Jon Castelli

Show Notes

Live with Matt Rad - Episode 92
May 17, 2022
w/ Jon Castelli - Week 74

Show notes by: Bradley Will

Kendrick Lamar’s New Record

Matt:
The new Kendrick record is probably the first time in a long time that I’ve listened to a record and then cried.

I love how they sometimes make the choice to let the instrumental run in the middle of the song for 4-8 extra bars.

If you make a lyric great or have a dense lyrical part, creating lots of space after that justifies the density and vice versa.


Jon:
Having a record full of densely-packed, bright singles will wear you out listening to it by the time you reach the end.

When you have a record with the density of meaning and intention in a Kendrick record, the engineering team steps out of the way and allows the art to breathe.

There are moments in these records where the sounds just jump out and grab your attention.

• The vocal is not over-compressed and is moving around.
  

This is the first record in a while that made me really root for the engineers and the work they did.


Matt:
Beach Noise did a great job producing and mixing on this record.

The whole record sounds like a cohesive work of art.

The engineers did a great job on some tracks at making different vocal recordings sound cohesive.


Jon:
I heard a rumor that Kendrick tracked his vocals on ‘Family Ties’ with different mics for his different vocal styles and personas. He keeps them both set up in the booth and he moves between them as he does the performance.

• Hats off to Matt Schaeffer. Kendrick’s main engineer.
  

Kendrick always sounds under-processed in the best way. It never sounds overdone.


Matt:
The thing that moves me and inspires me the most is when an artist/producer/mixer does something on a record that makes me think “I would have never chosen to do that. Boy is that cool.”

• I get that feeling all over this record.
  

I’m always trying to avoid over-brightening things when I mix, so it’s always very inspiring to hear when a record doesn’t feel the need to do that.


Jon:
You get that effect by having good arrangement practice, good monitoring, and understanding balances.

• Don’t try to brighten something dramatically because your sound choice doesn’t reflect that already.

• It makes it a wash.

Mixing Tate McCrae - What Would You Do?

Jon:
Tate loves the choices that I’ve made on the record.

• We approached it by making the guitar top-end compete less with the vocals, so that they could sound loud.

• We tried to make the guitars be more mid-rangey and dense in that area.
  

Because nothing is competing with the voice it’s allowed to be bright by just being. Not by having a bunch of processing applied to it.

I’m not doing mix moves because I think that’s what I’m supposed to do. I do it for reasons of taste.

• It’s about understanding music and genre.
  

———

Matt:
I think there is a whole era of mixing in the late 90’s/early 00’s where the vocals were not hyped, but sits really well in the mix.

• Rich Costey, Tchad Blake, Eric Valentine are great at this.

• Mr. Brightside by The Killers is a good example of this sound.

• Everything feels mid-rangey, but it’s not this scooped hip-hop style mixing.
  

Jon:
Rich Costey is known to be very additive into compression and dynamic processing to get that up-against-the-glass energy, that happens just before it’s too much.


Matt:
When you listen to something from across the room it’s the midrange that comes out. That’s why it’s important to get your midrange right.


Jon:
If you’re boosting non-existent high-end on instruments that don’t have it all you’re doing is adding more noise. There’s nothing there. Just filter it down and let there be space for everything else.

You can probably even turn down the hi-hats.

• The hi-hats on the new Kendrick are not bright at all.

• The hi hats do not need to be so bright on records.

• Hi-hats are not inherently bright. It’s not about the ticky-ticky sound.

• Your ears get used to the hi-hats being too bright, which leads to demo-itis and a reluctance to make them quieter.

• Hi-hats are supposed to sit in a mix. You’re gonna hear them anyways, so turn them down and let the other elements speak.

• Most people’s car stereos have the hi-end cranked anyways, so you’re definitely going to be hearing them.
  

Matt:
Bainz mentioned that the rough mixes he gets from the producers always have the hi-hats way too loud.

Go listen to those Rich Costey records and ‘Dirt Off Your Shoulder’ by Jay-Z and Timbaland and understand the dark heaviness in the drums that will translate everywhere and sound huge on every sound system.


Jon:
If you put too much high end on a record you can ruin the bounce. Having too much high end straightens out the groove and kill the bounce.

• You need to have dynamics in every respect.
  

I really like the new Lizzo mix from Manny.

• Until the Kendrick record It was one of the first mixes to inspire me in quite some time.
  

Q: How do you leverage success to get more work?

Matt:
When you do something that works and everyone responds well to it, do whatever you can to double and triple-down with that team.

• A lot of the people who’ve had great careers in music do so by committing to their creative team.
  

I haven’t had great success trying when people come to me and ask me to replicate something else I did that was successful.

Compound relationships is one of the best ways to do this.


Jon:
The best thing you can do is to come at a song with the best intention.

We all want to find the best crew of people that we work best with and keep doing it.

Q: Have you ever turned down a good opportunity, or do you take every one?

Matt:
The longer you work, you are going to turn down things that end up being successful.

• I try to take on everything that looks interesting, but there are only so many gigs you can take on.
  

Jon:
I’ve definitely mixed songs and then two weeks later the song was released and it’s not my mix.

Q: How do you deal with editing while producing and recording without slowing down the session too much?

Matt:
There is no answer. You have to find a balance.

You can’t spend too much time trying to get the right drum sound in a writing session. You have to know what to prioritize in the moment.

I’ve come to realize that when in session with an artist all I really need to do is to get a great vocal and some ad-libs and then I can do everything else by myself later.

• If I have only a day in the studio with an artist where I have to get the vocal. Even if the track isn’t quite there yet, I get the vocal.
  

The more records you make the more experience you have knowing what you can and cannot do after the fact while in a session.

I can also comp the shit out of a vocal. And that has allowed me to do great work with a minimal amount of material to work with.

Jon:
Don’t give the artist an end of day bounce until you can get in there and make it sound right.

Matt:
Yes. Never.