Episode 94 - Jon Castelli
Show Notes:
Live with Matt Rad - Episode 94
June 7, 2022
w/ Jon Castelli - Week 76
Show notes by: Bradley Will
Q: How do you deal with giving the right amount of attention to every project that you agree to? How do you know that you’re giving everything the proper attention?
Matt:
I never feel as if I have the proper balance of attention, but I’m getting better.
The skillset is about how to jump between different roles: Writing, producing, mixing, etc.
For me it’s a constant juggle. That’s what’s exciting to me.
I get bored if I’m doing the same thing over and over again in the same way, whereas (Jon) likes to stay in the
I enjoy the discomfort in the process. That’s what is exciting to me.
The anxiety of not knowing is a positive quality for me.
Jon:
I like to double-down on the mixing process.
This week I have to start a project and work on it for the next two weeks, but what happens if another high-priority artist comes in and demands a quick turnaround? How do I balance the need to do both of these projects?
Matt:
There’s a big difference between scheduling your time and being physically present somewhere and between getting your brain to be present somewhere.
How do you turn off your brain when it’s time to focus on something else?
How do you finish something and then turn them off when it’s time to do something else.
I find it helps to clear your plate as much as possible before you go into the next project that’s requires your focus.
This way you can prioritize the person you’re working with in the moment.
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Matt:
It’s okay to do your career the way that you want to do it.
The majority of money made in the music industry is following something that’s authentic and broke through.
To quote Kanye: “Trend is always late”.
The incentives are there for people to simply do the things that are already working.
I don’t begrudge anyone for following that path.
Whenever you get the opportunity to do things that you love and feel authentic to you, then make sure that you go and do it.
It’s a really hard thing to do.
Jon:
There’s a great chef whose restaurant I just ate at (Manzke), and when I went to his IG I was surprised to find on his IG that he was shredding on guitar.
The point being a lot of people do what they do out of the pure joy of doing it.
Even today I can’t wait to get off of this live stream and start to mix.
Always do what you do for the joyful reason.
Matt:
In my experience if you trade the joy for money, it’s usually not worth it.
If you hate the record, then you probably shouldn’t be doing it, even though I would never begrudge anyone for doing so, because I empathize with the need to get paid.
The State of Saturation in Record Making
Matt:
Some of our favorite records from the early 2000’s (Usher, Lil Jon, etc) have so much punch and presence.
Jon:
Just taking my (simple) mix buss off of the mix made the make far more dangerous and lively and transient.
On this recent Doechii record, the clipping I was doing made the mix sound hard, but in a less punchy way.
I wasn’t feeling it as much as the Nicki Minaj record I did four years ago where the bass was hitting harder.
I had the opportunity to remix that song recently and gave myself a ton of headroom on this pass and then sculpted the 808 in the way that the producer wanted.
I figured out how to get that upper harmonic in the 808 that was wanted, but I did it without the clipper this time.
I was able to make the record go so hard with the mix and change it from a -7 LUFS to a -10 LUFS.
Guys like Chris Tabron and Tom Elmhirst are excellent at balancing their records.
The hi-hats aren’t competing with the vocal.
Nothing is occupying the same space as the 808.
You can turn things down so that the 808 can come up.
If I’m hitting tubes and transformers on my mixbuss I’m going to get softened transients, so I have to be very careful how I hit my tubes.
I’m looking for the sweet spot where the floor of my studio shakes and I get the upper harmonic on the 808 that speaks on an iPhone.
This is always around -10 LUFS, but I can’t be louder and still retain that feeling.
Matt:
Mixers have started to deliver more on loudness than they used to.
I like the idea of not mixing so loud and then letting a mastering engineer get the right amount of loudness.
That’s what they’re supposed to do. That’s why you hire someone to get the loudness for you, because they’re better at it than you are.
I want my mixes to feel more raw and dangerous than they would if I’m limiting everything or going for loudness.
Jon:
Agreed. You want the arrangement and the mix to be unexpected, and if you over-compress things it will be too safe and comforting.
We all want a switch up in the song that’s going to create surprise.
We want to create moments, and mixers get to help craft these moments.
The punch in the 808 comes from the upper harmonics, and if you also want the low-end then only the way you can get there is with headroom.
If you want a kick to really knock you have to have all of the elements present in the mix, not just accentuating 1k.
Matt:
Listen to Des’ree - You Gotta Be
That mix is so cool because the verse is at least 2dB quieter than when the 1st chorus finally comes in.
That boldness is so dope.
All American Rejects - Gives You Hell
Another song with a great lift in the chorus.
Jon:
People used to do mix buss automation.
People don’t do that anymore because they’re trying to appease the needs of Spotify playlists.
If your song’s verse can’t compete when it’s 1dB quieter, then it isn’t any good to begin with.
Matt:
If the song is great, the production is going to work no matter what. If the song is poor then a good production is not going to save it.
Outkast’s Hey Ya is so strange by every metric (mix, song, or arrangement), but it’s super great and wildly popular.
Jon:
Mixing linearly today is very different than the way records were made back in the mid 90’s on the records with sonics that we love.
Q: How much are you solo’ing?
Matt:
I solo all the time when producing and getting sounds.
When it comes to mixing I’ve been trying to do less solo’ing.
Jon:
I never mess with a sound when it’s solo’ed by itself. I only change it when it’s in the mix.
I only solo when I’m doing surgical moves like de-clicking.
I would never make any mix decisions solo’ed.
However, I do solo entire groups all the time.
I’ll solo the drums, or all the vocals, or all of the instruments for a while and mix them as a group, but I’ll never make a decision with a solo’ed instrument. That makes no sense.
Sometime I’ll spend a lot of time mixing the drums with the just vocal to get them playing well together. I want to hear their interactions.
This allows me to hear the song in different ways.
Mixing is the interaction between instruments and sonic elements. Not the art of mixing them alone.
Q: What do you do when you’re stuck on a production?
Matt:
Often I’ll throw a lot of different ideas at a section and then go back later to see what sticks and is working well.
Jon:
Quite often I’ll bring back the elements buried in the mix that the producer or artist forgot were there.
Those are the insecure moments that they chose to bury. By bringing those elements up it changes the groove and feel and allows the song to have different scenes by allowing these elements to be present in the mix.
Q: How many different speakers do you test mixes on?
Matt:
Because I’m running around so much I have many different things to check on.
Airpods, ATM-50 headphones, Focal headphones.
Jon:
Car, phone, Air-pods.
I don’t check every mix on all of these, but I usually get around to listening on my car.
Sometimes you can send it to friends or your mastering engineer to get their feedback with fresh ears.
Q: Favorite breakfast place in LA and New York?
Jon:
In LA: Destroyer
In NYC: Buvette in the West Village
Matt:
In LA: Square One on Fountain, Little Dom’s for brunch, and breakfast by Salt’s Cure on Santa Monica Blvd.
