Episode 99 - Tyler Johnson
Show Notes:
Live with Matt Rad - Episode 99
Aug 9, 2022
w/ Tyler Johnson - Week 1
Show notes by: Bradley Will
Tyler’s Studio
Tyler:
My studio is great because I’ve got everything dialed in the way that I want. It makes me nervous to move to another studio.
Matt:
I’ve been changing studios every few weeks and there’s something challenging about that.
If I want to get into songwriting mode I need to do a lot of the same things in each place.
Tyler:
I fall into the category of always being within arms-reach of my work/life balance being perfect.
The longest stretch I’ve spent in the studio has been a month, before I’ve had to travel again.
I have a dream of being in the same space for consistently for a long time, but I’ve never really experienced that due to my travel obligations.
My studio represents a lot of workflow choices that have taken a long time to figure out.
I think it’s important to break up workflow all over the place.
It’s important to have a station set up and easy to use.
Q: How does one write a song?
Tyler:
At its essence a song is melody, lyrics, and chords.
I’m a lover of collaboration.
It introduces so many variables.
Being open and adaptable to how other people work is important.
I Will Always Love You by Dolly Parton is one of my favorite songs and is a good summary of what a song is.
I like songs where you know what people are talking about but there’s still some mystery about it.
You don’t want to be on the nose with the message.
That’s one of the hardest parts about writing a song.
If it’s too on the nose it runs the risk of being skippable and forgettable.
A good lyric mixed with accessibility really does help to write pop music or commercial leaning music.
If you don’t have an answer in your head of what a good song is to you, then that can be problematic.
Knowing what you want from a song is a great starting place.
Instinct is so important because it helps eliminate the myriad of choices that have to happen every single time.
If you know what you’re trying to say with a song, then it will help you to decide where to take the song.
Matt:
Someone once asked me “What are the songs that you wish you’d written?”
That’s a great way to approach writing a song.
Identify what you like and go from there.
Q: How does one write a hit?
Matt:
I don’t know. You just put yourself in the workflow where it can be allowed to happen.
Tyler:
Writing hit songs is like the rules of Fight Club: We’re all here to write a hit, but you should never say it out loud. Don’t look it in the eye as you’re making it.
I have to acknowledge the role of the artist in writing a hit.
They are the thing that everything else is built on.
The power and responsibility of the artist to be the foundation for everything has to be respected.
Making a good song is like climbing a hill and you need to find someone who is good at climbing that hill.
Matt:
There are songwriters who are collaborators and there are songwriters who are artists.
Pharrell is a songwriter and producer who is also an artist.
Tyler:
The artist mentality. You can be multi-dimensional.
If you’re going to write popular music you need to either have an artist mentality that is very well-refined or in the room with someone with a well-refined mentality.
You need someone who is willing to define what they think should be popular and try to both ride trends in the right way and set their agenda in the right way.
I think it’s almost impossible to write a hit song.
I’ve always found that it helps to write as much as possible. Have a lot of options and try to catch it when it comes.
Until it’s something that sounds like a record you just keep tweaking.
These sounds like tropes, but it’s hard to describe and certainly true.
It’s always a worthwhile goal to set the bar at “Just make it sound like a song.”
Getting it to a finished, good, spot counts for a lot.
Matt:
Ed Sheeran likes to say “Finish the ideas”
You can’t always be in the mood to assess whether it’s good or not while you’re working on the song.
As the producer quite often what I need to do is push everyone to finish the song. Those decisions are a big part of our job.
Tyler:
Jeff Bhasker (who I came up under) had three rules for writing a song:
Make sure the lyric is a bumper-sticker lyric
Secondary melodic hooks. Something that isn’t a vocal line that signifies the song to listeners.
Make music with the intention in mind. (Ex: fucking, fighting, or dancing)
If you want a song to be popular it helps if you have an intention of what people are going to be doing as they listen to it, so that you can tailor the song to that purpose (empowerment, sad, feeling seen, etc).
Identifying this purpose helps you to find a direction when you get stuck writing it.
If you listen to all popular records there is a speed with which it becomes immediately recognizable as itself.
Matt:
Sia says “Make it song titles that you can Google.”
Tyler:
Writing a hit song is like comedy. If they’re not laughing it was a miss.
If a song doesn’t get a reaction out of you then it wasn’t a success.
Of course, people will react differently depending on the type of song, but it’s something to aim for
In a specific type of pop music that I do, these tricks will help to get a song across the line in a way that will make it sound more poppy.
Matt:
I think a lot of songwriters get lost down rabbit holes that are over-thought or over-worked.
I’ve rarely written a song that took 3 hrs just to write the intro and verse.
It’s rare to spend so long trying to access the emotional core of a song.
A producer/writer (unnamed) once told me “If we don’t have a chorus in the first 10-15 minutes we’re going to try writing another song.”
Tyler:
At the end of the day it’s so difficult to create, so it’s important to be creatively supportive
You need a trustworthy community of people who make you feel safe and will support you.
What you make has to be great. It has to be sharp and exceptional.
For me, my goal is to always be on the trajectory of always getting to the level of a relationship that Harry (Styles) and Tom (Kid Harpoon) have with each other, where we can be open and supportive with each other.
I’m trying to connect with artists and co-writers. I need to arrive at a place of trust where there can be mistakes and missteps.
I’m always on the goal of trying to do that with someone.
I want to build the relationship to a point where there is trust between everyone involved that doesn’t wilt under even a small amount of disappointment.
Matt:
I always tell artists, the studio is the place to make mistakes. This is the place to try things that nobody else will ever have to hear.
It’s an important part of the process to make things that aren’t great. Sometimes you just need to get them out of the way.
That’s part of getting the reps to develop your writing and collaboration.
Tyler:
Yes. But it’s never not uncomfortable to not nail it. There’s always a lot of discomfort in failing so often.
Matt:
It’s like having a major league batting average. There is a very low percentage of success.
It’s very hard to write emotionally-lasting hit songs.
Taylor:
You don’t have a choice. You have to keep making bad records in order to get to the great ones.
For this reason, managing your mental health is very important.
Q: What’s the vocal chain for the Harry Styles record?
Tyler:
We always brought Kid Harpoon’s vocal chain
BAE Neve preamp (I think)
Telefunken 251 recreation (which I recommend).
LA-2A (newer version)
The vocals were engineered by Jeremy Hatcher, who is amazing.
Of course a good singer is the single most important part of the sound.
Q: On the Harry Styles record, how much were the drums live vs. sampled?
Tyler:
Across the record as the whole there are live drums in there everywhere with samples layered in.
Late Night Talking was Tom playing a live kit from the top of the song to the end.
The live drums were recorded at Shangri-La
On Sushi, it was built around a drum machine loop. I put it in Ableton and re-timed it in a way that gave it a slushy sound that made the drums sound abnormal.
This slushy texture
Then we added a sample kick, a cowbell, and then Mitch played live hi-hats over it.
As It Was
Tom recorded the live drums one element at a time.
These were the drum tones we had to work the hardest for because the drums were recording in a boxy room in a house.
